Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Love to take credit for it, but John Moss came up with the name. John brought up a good point. He said too big to fail is that our mission, you know, to improve the future of our teams and communities is too big and important for us to allow us to fail. Failure is not an option for us accomplishing our mission. So that's what too big to fail means. And I thought it was a great name for a podcast dedicated to our people.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Go big or go.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Thank you for coming on today. You know, we just want to really talk about, you know, a little bit of the Moss history, kind of the purpose of the. Of the podcast here and what message you want to send out to the field and the guys and, you know, your dedication to. To Moss Utilities, man.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: I think this podcast idea spurred from realizing that we have to do a better job at communicating across the board. And we do a lot of great things. Communicating within the office, within having team building stuff. The office culture is awesome, but, like, we're not doing everything we can to be talking to the guys at the front lines, telling them what's going on, making them feel involved. We do a better job than a lot of companies, but we still have a lot of room for growth. Just a desire for the culture to kind of, you know, go out to the guys that are. To put in the hard work. I think you start by just telling their stories and telling them what's going on with the company and setting a vision and a direction and getting. Let them get to know us. And I think they probably feel isolated when they're out on a job site. They don't ever come to this office. They don't make it here very often. So how do you get everybody to feel like one big team?
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Absolutely. I think, honestly, if you. If you think about it, Moss Utilities does way more than what I've seen other companies do for their employees. Like, the involvement that, you know, you have with, you know, the office and the impact essentially that goes downstream to the field is a lot. Right. Moss does way more than what a lot of these construction companies in general do. Right. So the fact that you still want to keep driving that, keep communication with the field is big. And I think the guys would really appreciate that.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: I think it's important. I mean, those guys are out, you know, rain or shine, doing the hard work. And, like, we can't run a business without them being incredible at what they do. You know, if we. We can't go sell a product or a service, it's not great. You know, a Lot of those guys have been with us for a long time and I want them to feel like they're part of something special and that that's a big reason why we were successful and keep growing is that our, that our people are better than our competitors and important to make them feel like they're heard and seen and part of the team. So.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So what's your vision for Moss? You know, do you want to keep growing or, you know, you really want to refine processes and procedures?
[00:02:35] Speaker A: Here at Moss, we believe in constant growth is one of our core values. Right. Like we're always going to be growing. That DOT doesn't always mean just trying to grow revenue or just, you know, grow for the sake of bigger numbers on a financial statement. You know, it's also how do we get better every single day? So it's hard to, you know, do both of those things at the same time. I think we can and we have over the years, you know, every year for the last four or five years, it's been top line growth, profitability growth, and we're getting better at what we do, more efficient, we have better people and we're accomplishing all of those. I think they kind of all go hand in hand. I don't think you have to sacrifice one for the other. You know, you can if you have the right people, if you have a mind for the future and you're building, you can, you can kind of be doing both of those. With growth comes a lot of opportunity. We've had countless stories of people here that have had big opportunities to move up here because the growth allows room for them to move up, more leadership positions available where some of our competitors, if they're just kind of flatlining and they're never going to grow and they're just comfortable where they're at. There's no growth opportunities. People have been with those companies for a long time and they're not going anywhere.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: It takes someone like you that wants to not necessarily risk it, but take that leap of faith. I want to be the best utility company out there.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: Right.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Let's jump back a little bit. You first got introduced into construction by, you know, your family. Right? Right. That's. Your dad had a construction company. How was that growing up? Were you pretty involved?
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Not really, but I remember going to like my dad's office and hanging out there as a kid. His construction yard was in Wylie and we would, you know, come to the office when we were days school. We would ride four wheelers around the yard or we Would go, you know, mess with people in the shop or we would go hang out. So I was around the business, but I really had no idea what he did up until, you know, sort of my teenage years. And then the goal was always, hey, I'm going to take over the family business one day, right? I was a smart kid. I didn't really have to try that hard in school. I kind of was just like, hey, one day it's going to be easy street. I can take over the family business. And kind of grew up a little spoiled. Kind of had whatever I wanted. My parents, my dad was, you know, successful and did really well for himself. So we had a big, nice house, we had nice things, nice cars. My parents wanted me to go to college. That was a big deal for them. Wanted me to go experience that. And then, you know, in 08, when I was in school, all that changed. Looking back, wasn't overnight, but kind of felt like it was overnight, right? So big, big change for me. I just always saw what owning a business did for my dad. It was a lot of, you know, he got to help people and change their lives, and people really respected him. He was really well liked, and he was. He meant a lot to a lot of people. You could watch that and kind of see what he did for people, and it was really, you know, admirable. And then watching him lose everything, he never really recovered from that. Got to see a lot of his mistakes from. From the sidelines now, looking back and learn from them, hey, here's some stuff maybe not to do, which I'm blessed to be able to learn through those mistakes. It was hard watching him having to go through that because at the end of the day, we didn't care about the money and the nice things. We cared about him and just wanted him. My family's been in the business for five generations, and I tried really hard not to do it. I tried to go to college and do something else. And that's why my. One of my first jobs out of college and my second job was for an H Vac contractor. So that's how I got into the H Vac world. I didn't want to go into utilities.
You know, I think I told the story. I got a call from a recruiter when I was at the H Vac company. He was like, hey, I've got this assistant project manager position. Do you want to go back into utilities? My brain, somehow I always knew that I wanted to own my own business. And I wasn't really sure what. But my Brain went, okay, if I get back into utilities, I'll have an easier time starting my own company. I would have a little bit easier time than like starting it in H Vac where I was brand new to it. Right? That was my logic. And I left the H Vac company, went back into utilities, worked for a competitor there for about a year, then went to another company, actually got fired. That's the only job I ever got fired from. Worked for another company for a year and a half and going to case my first partner and being like, hey, why don't we go do this on our own? You know, I was a project manager, he was a superintendent. It was really dumb idea, looking back because we had. I had like two or three years of experience, wasn't anything.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: But sometimes those, those ideas, whether dumb or not, are the ones that ended up, you know, launching off. Right? So something in you had to have like sparked and said, you know, I want to do this. At least your family, right? Your connections and all that. So that's, that's pretty cool.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: Those didn't help nearly as much as I thought they would because my dad's company had been out for so long. You know, I kind of learned at the previous places I worked some of the commercial work. And his business really was focused on subdivisions and single family infrastructure. So a lot of the connections had kind of fizzled out by then. It got a little difficult for the first couple of years because he actually worked somewhere else. And then I brought him on to work for us and like, we just did not see eye to eye on how a business should be run. So he worked for us for about a year, but like, he wasn't really involved in the business and so I really, really had to do it on our own. So there wasn't just a legacy business to hand down to the next generation. It was really just all from scratch. The only thing we have is our name. But it's been really challenging and rewarding and ups and downs and failures and successes. Coming up this year, I'll be coming up on nine years, and it's. It feels way longer than that and sometimes it feels like it was yesterday, so.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: But what's been one of your, like, biggest obstacles? Starting off with Moss Utilities.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: When we got started, we grew way too fast. I didn't understand, you know, I was just a project manager, so I didn't see the overall business, how it was run. I didn't understand the cash needs of a business, how you manage a balance sheet, where does the money come from? To start a business, you know, it's not just. You just don't make profit and then that's just the end of it. Like, there's a lot to that, right?
[00:07:27] Speaker B: Investing back into the company.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I kind of knew how the work was supposed to go in, but I didn't really have any field experience. Looking back, I was naive enough to start, but, like, if I had known everything I know now, maybe I would have been like, man, that's a tough business. I don't know if I do that, you know, because it's. It's really capital intensive. It's really people intensive. It's low margin relative to some other kind of work. Luckily, we just kind of took it step by step and really got going. And our first year, I found a bank. I borrowed $60,000 from my grandparents, got a $120,000 SBA loan from a bank that took a chance on me. You know, just started off doing small comm work and we had, you know, one or two crews. Parker was our first foreman and his brother. Our first crew was two guys doing like little fire line jobs and stuff. So we just took it. I was lucky. My wife was making good money at her job, so I, I didn't take a salary for the first couple years, really. Just kind of started working out of my upstairs bedroom and trying to do stuff the right way. My first projections had us doing 4 million, 6 million and 8 million the first three years. And 2017, our first full year, we did 22 million. People were like, oh, that's great. But it was, it was too fast, like we didn't know anything. We were on QuickBooks. We didn't have any visibility into how our jobs were perform financially. We didn't have the cash to support it. Second bank that started growing really fast with us. And looking back, I don't know why they did, but they kept just upping our lines of credit and giving us capital. One of the early things I did that a lot of companies don't do is I hired a CFO pretty quick, A guy named Rich Fleissner who I'd worked with previously. He's one of the smartest guys I'd ever met. But he didn't really have a lot of construction, so he helped a lot. But we had to learn together. And we. We've converted over to a new ERP back then spectrum that we still use today. Learning the work in progress schedule, learning all the accounting behind construction. It's different how you account for construction versus, like, you know, he kind of had a manufacturing and mill background. One day we looked up and we were, we were losing a lot of money and didn't know it. We backed up, reassessed, and it got really hard for three or three or four years.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: What made you want to keep just driving at it? Driving addicts? I'm sure there were some points or some situations or a point in time to where, you know, you just wanted to throw the towel in or did you feel like that or did you, you know, you just, you want to keep chugging along.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: We got really close to giving up late 2019. So 18 was really hard because we were growing and struggling financially. And then 18 was second wettest year on record. So rain would put us out of work for a month at a time. It was really bad. So you combine that with everything else going wrong. Our bank at the time decided to pull the rug out from under us. We had to go get like a high interest line of credit, had to take a merchant cash advance loan. Like really bad financial decisions. Right. So by the time we got to 19, you know, we're trying to just work our way out of it and it was, we couldn't Pay vendors probably 10 or 12 times where it's a Wednesday and Friday is coming and we don't know how we're going to make payroll. We have to go find a check to collect somehow, you know, find some way to get it done.
[00:09:59] Speaker B: Is that where you think like, like relationships are really like, you know, Because I know you preach about relationships all the time, right?
[00:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think when you go through really hard things in a relationship, if you can work through it, you come out the other side, which must with a much stronger relationship. Those vendors that I had to call constantly be like, hey, I can't pay you, but you know, I could pay you next Friday. Or hey, we're doing, we're struggling with this. You know, the ones that kind of stood by us and helped me work through the hard times now are some of our closest friends. Best vendor relationships, because they've been through the lows with us. Right. So now that we're doing really well, like, I don't turn my back on them. I knew they were there for me during the tough times. Right. So one thing I saw with my dad when he was doing really well, he had a lot of friends when he hit rock bottom, you know, who was still there. And the list wasn't very long. Right. If you can trust people and, and deal with them and partner with them in the tough times, you Know, the good times are a lot easier. We got really close to kind of giving up in 19. I remember sitting down at my kitchen table with my wife and, you know, kind of bawling my eyes out, going, hey, I think I'm going to call a bankruptcy attorney. And she told me, she was like, hey, I'd rather you go down swinging. Like, I don't care if we lose everything. Go down swinging. You're not just going to give up. The timing was pretty impeccable because in, you know, early 2020, CFO leaves with a week of notice. You know, tries to teach Kelly the basics. Kelly takes over. You know, we do a bunch of stuff to try to get her some support. We're barely hanging on. Parker takes over the field. Like, big changes, right? Were really, really struggling. And then covet happens. And Covid kind of gave us, took our attention away to, we have to survive this Covid stuff. If you look at all your problems and they seem really daunting, and, like, if you just analyze them in the macro level, they're huge. But if you can just break it down to trying to win every single day and, like, what can I do today to move the ball forward a little bit?
[00:11:40] Speaker B: I think all of these, like, obstacles and challenges that you've dealt with throughout the years, there were struggles, you know, because sometimes not knowing the ins and outs of a business, I don't know the ins and outs of a business. I know very little about them. So a lot of sacrifices, you know, a lot. The team that was there for them, the people that was there for them, the relationships, the vendors. I think it's big for the field to. To really see that and understand that.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: I want this to be a company that they like working for. Like, if They've worked for five or 10 other companies before and they come here, I want them to feel like it's a little bit different. The stuff we do for them, it's not gimmicks. Like, it has to be genuine. And they'll feel that if it's genuine, right, Some of the guys are never going to care. They're only going to care about the dollar per hour that they get more. You know, they'll leave for a competitor, and there's just a certain level of people that that's all they care about. But the guys that want to stick around long term, that see the opportunity, I mean, how many examples do we have to show these guys of, man, you can build a career here if you just put in the effort. Like, if you work Hard and just listen, be a sponge. Like there's opportunity here to grow. You're not stuck there. If you want to learn to be a pipe layer, if you want to learn to drive an excavator and they want to learn and grow, like there's that opportunity here and you kind of have to be loud about it. Like as you have to be willing to show the company some loyalty. I think it's important for these guys to have perspective.
Like you said, like when you're out in the field and you see the company doing well, you, you tend to assume the worst. Oh, those guys in the office, you know, don't do anything. They all drive nice vehicles and they're just, you know, they're making money off of us. It takes everybody, right? John and Edwin, it takes the entire office staff, the pre con team, accounting, business development, project management. Takes everybody to make this thing go around. Nobody should be more important than the other. But we all need to have some perspective that it takes a lot of hard work and dedication and sacrifice at all levels. Right.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: I think that's a really good example. You said about there's, there's a lot of guys here that are here, check to check, right? But like, you know, I'll give a good example. This Monday we had an orientation, right? And I saw this guy in there and I was like, you look familiar. I was like, you know, I left for two weeks but it's not the same. They paid me more but I didn't like the company. I really like working here. I was like, well good, that's good to hear. He was like, I'm not that guy's, you know, supervisor or foreman, you know. But he had to leave to be able to see that, you know, we're the, the better company, right, to work.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: For and we have to do a good job of like keep investing and pouring into them. But there has to be that, that give and take and that, that loyalty to each other, you know that like if they get offered a little bit more money, it doesn't mean that that money's not going to be available here. Good things come in time and like we like paying people really well. We love giving raises. The business has to like make money and be profitable. But it's, it's a long term play. Be thinking about, okay, what where I'm going to be in five years, what company do I want to be with in 10 years. You know, if I just keep bouncing around going between company every year, you never get any traction.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: But it takes a Company like this to get the traction, right. I bounced around from a company to company, right? And until I got here, I didn't feel that traction, right? To. To really, like, I can't see myself growing here, right? The living examples, right? Like, like Reuben and Edwin, like, those guys came down from the field, got to that point then, you know, I want to be able to get to that point because I'm sure Reuben has put in the work one.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Those are good stories and they're admirable. Like, Edwin come in off the fuel truck, man, we gotta find those people. You know, Edwin coming in, his dad was a big advocate for him. Being like, hey, my son's graduating college. You know, he's. He's smart. And us just talking to him be like, hey, man, I feel like you'd be a good estimator. Like, you have to be out looking for those people. And I think we do a good job of that. We're not going to keep somebody in a role just because they're the best. If somebody's really good at what they do, companies will keep them there because they're. That's what they're most profitable, right? Or whatever. But I love seeing people grow here. Everybody from John starting at the front desk. Kelly started at the front desk. Like, these amazing stories. Look at these people. Like, look at what they're doing now. The stuff we're doing with Moss U is like, to me, is one of the most impactful things we've ever done. Because bringing in D and guys like that that have had no experience with what we do, and they're going to come in and they're going to have a happy career. This industry is. It's tough, it's. It's challenging, but it's rewarding. You get to know you're part of these amazing projects. The Universal Studios, these giant data centers. When you stop and, like, think about it, it's really cool to be a part of. I feel like we're just getting started. We do that with the best people. So we need all of our people out helping us find great people, helping us find great clients. Like, building our team takes everybody, right? We've just been so blessed to be surrounded by amazing people. It's been challenging finding the great people. We've got a great company. We're not perfect. We make mistakes. We mess stuff up. When you know you're going the right direction, if you just have some grace.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: And some patience, I think Parker calls that passion.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: So, yeah, they're passionate.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: Yeah, he's passionate. About it.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: Yeah, but he embodies our culture and he's one of us. And like we've, I've seen him grow from this young kid, young single dad, to like the man he is now. The leader of his family, the leader of the field, all of our field and operations.
Like, just watching that transformation is so rewarding. Not just growing in their job title, growing in their responsibilities, making more money, but like just, just growing as people and as leaders.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's good to hear that from you though. Over the years, I've seen their obstacles that they've dealt with and, and where they're at, like Kelly and Parker and you know, John, it's, it's, it's crazy if you think about it. It really is. It's crazy and it feels good. The most happiest thing that you could probably do is, is give.
[00:16:43] Speaker A: There's this desire. You start thinking about like, man, what kind of legacy do I want to leave? And like, what are we, what are we really doing all this for? Why do we get up every day and it's not the goal. Can't to me just can't be to make a bunch of money because money does matter, but it's not the only thing that matters. We're a good company. You can affect the world. You can impact a lot of people. You know, you can make the world a better place while being a really well run, profitable company. There's not this trade off of make the most money and treat people like crap. They can go hand in hand. You can do both of those really well and the best companies in the world are figuring out how to do that. I think we're onto something and I'm excited about the future. We're blessed to be in an incredible market. We've got great people, we're doing a lot of fun stuff.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Well said, very well said. Well, I appreciate you taking some time to give your spill on your vision here with Moss and where you want to take it, where you want to run, the impact that you want to make out in the field. Because I think the guys will really take a turn to it.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: So, yeah, you know, for the guys in the field watching and listening like we, we want you guys to feel like you are, you're part of this, you matter. This company, you know, me, this, the leaders here, we care about your well being, you know, your growth. Even if you can't see it every day, put a little effort and loyalty into being part of something bigger than yourself. Like the results will, will come. I want to make sure that we are listening to our field people. We wouldn't be here without our team in the field, putting in the great work every day, battling the 110 degree Texas heat, you know, fighting through the summers, fighting through the rain, fighting through the cold winters, and looking forward to these guys listening to more employees and team members on here, talking to you and telling their story.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: They're the real goats.
Yeah, they're the real goats.
Yeah. We can't do it without them, and I think we can't do it without you guys. But we also need your help.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Yep. You know, it's got to be a win, win. Here we go.
Here we go.
