Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Technology is coming in, drone technology is coming in. Things are going to be autonomous and robotic. So we have to start developing these guys now with not the competencies of 1995, but the capabilities of a foreman from 2030.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Nowadays, a lot of people are seeing that there's money to be made in construction.
[00:00:17] Speaker A: I've seen that change recently.
Right now, a lot of young men, a lot of young women who right now can't find a career. This is a place where you can come and work and if you show grit, you're have that growth mindset and you get after it. The sky's the limit.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Let's get started. I know you say your name's Wes, but I think it's a little short name for your full name, no?
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Yeah, my real name is Wednesday.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Talking about fancy there, man.
Talk about fancy.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Well, yeah, it's. You know, there's a story behind it, but everybody calls me Wes because it's easier to pronounce in English and in Spanish.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:01:05] Speaker A: And it's a fun name.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Definitely a tongue twister, tell you that much.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Say it ten times fast.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: No, I can say it once.
Yeah, well, let's. You know, what is your scope here at Moss, you know, so what I
[00:01:15] Speaker A: really do here is help develop the team.
So whatever we'll need in the future as Moss grows, whether it's more superintendents, foremen, operators, pipelayers, pipelayer helpers, we're developing the next generation of leaders to go out and do things the Moss way.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Do you feel like this is something that Moss needs or could really benefit from?
[00:01:37] Speaker A: Yeah, because Moss, I don't think it's a growth company. I think it's a scale company. What I mean by that is that it's exponentially growing and you cannot buy enough foremen or superintendents from out in the field. You have to get to a point where you create them.
Right. And not only that, when you create them internally, they'll be more loyal to the company. They're more likely to do things the way Moss does things, rather than bring in, whether good or bad habits from other places.
[00:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah. What is something you would tell, you know, an employee out there that's looking to grow within, you know, Moss, I
[00:02:12] Speaker A: would say show initiative. Right.
Start thinking about talking to your manager, talking to your supervisor, talking, telling them you want to do more? I would say you have to have that growth mindset. Don't get stuck on where you're at. Think about what you want to do in the future. There's going to be plenty of opportunity. Because as I said, this is a scale company and as we grow there's going to be a much more need. The other day we had to hire six on the spot foreman. Imagine if we had those lined up and ready to go out in the field and they just put me in the game, coach, I'm ready, I've been training, I'm ready for the next level. Then we just pick them and put them in, you know. And so what we want to do is intention, make it intentional, but also accelerate it. So what I've heard out in the construction industry is this is usually what people say, hey, work hard, do your time and one day the opportunity will arise. Right. And so what that one day could be a week from now, it could be a 10 years from now, the measurables.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Right?
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So hey, this is a program, it's a three month program or a six month program. These are the learning objectives. This is what you'll learn and what you'll get out of it. And if you do these following steps, it's a plan that you can get to. So a lot of it is developing individual development plans where they talk about their, where they develop their personal and professional goals because they got to develop themselves as a person and they also have to develop themselves as a professional.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Gotcha. Gotcha. How niche would you say Moss Utility is as far as like a trade partner? Right. Because we're essentially a trade partner to general contractors. Right. How, how detailed do you think Moss Utilities really is? Like as far as, like the work that we do out in the field?
[00:03:57] Speaker A: Well, the, the thing about the, the detail and what you guys do is that as you guys grow, you will be. And maybe I'm listening to you wrong, but this is what I'm understanding is as you guys encounter more the Webers, Manhattans, the Austins of the world, your team has to develop those skills to talk to the gcs. The technology is coming in, drone technology is coming in and you got the machine learning things where things are going to be autonomous and robotic. Right. So the Foreman of 1995, those skills required aren't going to be the same as the Foreman of 2030.
So we have to start developing these guys now with not the competencies of 1995, but the capabilities of a foreman from 2030.
So we have to be more intentional in order to be competitive, in order to win those bids, in order to attract people and retain them. Because you got to think about these young adults, they go to these high schools and as soon as kindergarten they have them on like career tracks.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: Right.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: They have, oh, you're going to go to the medical field, you're going to go into the business field and they start thinking about their career development earlier on. So when they come to a company, one of the things that's going to attract them is, oh, there's a career track for me, there's a career pathway, there's a way and a reason and a rhyme, they're going to stick. Whereas if it's ambiguous and nebulous and it's like, well, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know how long it's going to take me. How long till I become a foreman, how long till I become an operator? I don't know. Just do your time, work hard.
That's not going to satisfy them anymore.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's interesting you say that because typically, at least when I, when I was growing up, you know, the construction industry wasn't very something. It wasn't something that people like.
Let's say I want to work in construction. Right. And nowadays a lot of people are seeing that there's money to be made in construction. Right. There's. It's not just about a shovel.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: It's about how do we get to the point where get that shovel on the ground. Right. You know, the precon. The proven process. Right. Of the, the mult. Utilities. How do you, how under appreciated do you think construction is nowadays? Because I know that's not. Still not something that, you know, it's going to be a career path for a kindergartner.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I've seen that change recently with high schools. I've seen it with private school students. I've seen it in.
Even at these rich ISDs where I sometimes do some work, the young adults are understanding that the career outlook is changing.
And you see it even in the news, people saying, hey, learn a trade. Right. Because it's going to take a while for the robots to start doing it. Right. So just learn a trade. If you're going to go. And I'm thinking if you're going to go into AI medicine, certain things that's. That's worth going to college for.
Right. Where it's a certification, nursing, teaching, accounting. However, what people are coming up with more and more is like, hey, if you're not going to go for those specific fields that require a degree and certification, go.
Go straight out into the workforce and learn and, and start getting those skills in those trades that are going to help your career I mean, you think about this. A plumber makes now versus, you know, a mechanical engineer. The plumbers are winning out many times. Right. The mechanical engineer draws the design for the plumbing, but the plumbers are, are starting out, working, then starting their own business or joining a company that has like something like this.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Do you think it's because of the demand or the, I guess the shortage of plumbers that there is nowadays? Because I mean, being a plumber doesn't sound attractive, let's just be honest. Right. You think it's because of the shortage or is there, I mean, I guess both. Right. A shortage and a demand for plumbers compared to like, you know, that engineer, Right?
[00:07:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: I mean, is that something that you think is the reason why?
[00:07:56] Speaker A: It's the sort, the, the shortage. It is also, you know, this work smarter, not harder, but you got to do both. You got to work smarter and harder, you know. Right. And you look at you, honestly, you look at what plumbers are driving, the big trucks that they're driving.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:12] Speaker A: As the engineers, probably I'm not knocking at my son studying for being an engineer. They're Toyota Prius, this guy's driving $150,000 truck.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: But they got to afford the schooling, right?
[00:08:22] Speaker A: That's right. There's the Prius.
And I wouldn't knock schooling because my son's going to school engineering, computer science and he's specializing in AI. So I'm not knocking that at all. But I'm saying unless you're brilliant at calculus and microbiology, there's other ways of making money that don't involve all that. If you're really good at that thing, go for it, do it. I'm not, I'm not telling you not to do it, that that's a great career.
But have you ever heard about the saying the ninis?
[00:08:50] Speaker B: I have not.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: Okay. In Spanish there's this term called the ninis. Niestudian, nitra, bajan.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: They neither study nor they work.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:58] Speaker A: Right. So you got to figure it out. You're going to go to school or you're going to work, but do something you can't. So there's a, right now a lot of young men, a lot of young women who right now can't find a career, they can't find a niche, they can't find a job. And sometimes they do, but it's in some low paying job that doesn't make ends meet. Right. This is a place where you can come and work and if you show grit, you show capacity, you have that Growth mindset and you get after it. The sky's the limit.
All we want to do is provide those opportunities for those young adults to be able to grow.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: But they have to demonstrate that and they've got to get gritty.
[00:09:41] Speaker B: You know that, that's one of the things that I really like about Moss and, and what Garrett's doing. Right. Because he has, I don't know exactly how the program is working, but there's this school that he'll like. I don't know if he's like sponsoring them or what. What?
[00:09:56] Speaker A: Legacy.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: The legacy. Right, the Legacy High school. I don't know exactly what he's doing, but that first round of kids that came over here, like, I was just like, man, like these kids are getting the opportunity to see, you know, what a construction company is about. And you know, those kids, it was a felt good seeing those kids actually say, I enjoyed going to this construction company. Right. I enjoyed going out to the field. I enjoyed getting on a piece of equipment that generates, you know, money essentially. Right. And I think that's what a lot of these schools have to really do to kind of get that buy in for, for kids to want to work in the construction industry. Right. Because there's always those internships. But it's always, I think, I don't think their focus is, is correct for the, for the mindset that's out there for the kids.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: Because those kids are gonna be like, oh yeah, you're gonna go intern, you're gonna go, you know, be an assistant for, you know, I don't know. And a PM kind of comes to head.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: But if you get these guys to go out to the field and see, you know, a trench, go look at a confined space, go look at, you know, know a, a blue excavator that's digging, you know, a 15 foot trench, I mean, that's stuff that's like, wow, like I can do this. You know what I mean? Like, this is something that is, you know, there, there's an opportunity for this and there's a demand for it. Why not? You know what I mean? So I think that's kind of the approach that, that a lot of these companies have to take and, and Moss is taking that approach.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: So many jobs are intangible. You're working with things that are numbers, electrons, whatever. This is a very tangible job and that's what I think attracts a lot of young adults. And they're people who are like kinesthetic learners.
They're never going to be able to Sit down behind a desk and pump out numbers all day long, it's just going to kill them. And there's people who can do that, God bless them. I'm not one of those, but that's why you have to find out. And I know we use the cultural index, right, if this is a good fit for you. And the best way to find out if something is a good fit for you is you try it out, do it, right, do it. And then once you do it, you figure out, hey, this I like, I don't like. I would rather go back to, you know, doing bookkeeping or yes, put me in the game, Coach. I want to operate a big excavator.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: As far as this program that you're developing and implementing at the same time, right, I'm assuming, I believe you had like, like a name for it. I think it was called something like muscle or muscle.
[00:12:20] Speaker A: So muscle stands for Moss Utilities, skill craft, leadership empowerment. And it's got a, a couple of things that come to it, right? So it talks about skill craft development, right? Becoming more technically proficient and efficient and qualitate, having quality, right. The other one is safety. Of course you can't do anything without safety, right? And then finally is leadership. And the reason leadership is so important is because you can teach people safety. You can teach them skill, quality, craft. But if they don't have those leadership, they won't implement or execute. They have to first have personal leadership to actually model the way. But then they have to be able to talk to a person and coach them, right. And actually persuade them to do it, have influence. It's very different than the management hierarchical, top down. Hey, you do things because I tell you, when I tell you, how I tell you. And you're going to smile while you're doing it. It's more like how do you actually
[00:13:20] Speaker B: motivate people to want to smile and do it?
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you, you look at the statistics, right?
If you have a bad boss and think about the last best bad boss you had, right? On average, people give 35% of their time talent toil, right? To those people, they're like, heck no, I'm only going to work when I'm being seen, right? Just enough not to get fired because this guy's a jerk.
He might be brilliant, he might know all the safety procedures, he might know all the skills, but he's cringy or she's cringy, right? And so you had a bad work environment, you have people leaving, whereas the average of a good leader, not a manager Leader. Because anybody can be a leader. You don't have to be a manager. They produce 95% time, talent and toil from their people.
Right. So because you want to work for that person, think about the last person who inspired you. That could have been a coach, that could have been a parent, that could have been a family member, that could have been someone that you're like, I want to impress them. I want them to be on their good side because I like them so much. You cannot be a leader if people don't like you.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: So leadership is an important component. And a lot of times people say, well, leadership, it's woo, woo, it's nami pamby. And I said, no, man, look at the numbers. It has directly to do with the roi and it has directly to do with how effective the company is. So leadership needs to be pushed. Not just the skills. Right. Not just the safety, because that helps you implement those two things.
[00:14:50] Speaker B: Gotcha. Yeah. That's one of the things that I feel like our superintendents really try to drive is being a leader. Right. Because not only are they pushing the production or the schedule or, you know, the guys essentially on the field, they also have to drive the safety aspect of it. Right. And who better to drive the safety aspect than the guy that's pushing production?
[00:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: I mean, that's. That's my point of view behind it. Right. Because if. If I'm a foreman and my superintendent is pushing, you know, me to, you know, finish this water line, you know, by Friday, and he also understands the safety aspect behind it, then he's going to understand if something comes, you know, across to where I can't finish it Friday, he's going to be understanding of it. Right. And so that's why I feel like these superintendents have a lot of weight on their shoulders. Yeah, right. It's because they're pushing in a lot of different directions. Right. I can push safety. Right. And I can push production, but a lot of these guys aren't really going to be like, do you really understand production is like, I do. Because if you're not producing, then I'm not working. Right.
[00:15:54] Speaker A: You use that example of push that pushes what managers do.
[00:15:59] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: And yes, budgets, schedule times, man hours, you've got to push on that. Right. But it's so much easier when you pull.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: What I mean by leadership is pulling, though, they're coming alongside and they're doing it themselves. Not only that, they're coaching and mentoring other people to do it.
So if you become not just a manager But a leader that coaches, mentors and trains, coach correctly and adequately.
[00:16:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: Then you have a dis. You have disciples, right? Those disciples then go out and train other disciples.
And then what you have is now an organization that is pulling in the same direction. But you got to know how to talk to people about their vision. You got to talk about the values. What's the mission? What's the why behind what they do?
So what are we doing here? We're not just putting lane pipe in the dirt. We make hospitals work and function, schools where kids drink their water. So we're actually saving and safeguarding lives. It's not just us working in the dirt.
We have a greater mission. We keep the economy going. Because what's going to happen with all these buildings if they don't have water or sanitary?
Restaurants are closed down, businesses are closed down. The economy would close down families. You just look at places in third world countries.
Many of the reasons why they're not wealthy or prosperous is because they don't have clean water. Clean water, that's simple, and that's what we provide. So is the superintendent, is the leader telling them, muchachos, estamos yis no grande escuasa sorrita. We're doing great things, like, no, I just think I'm just digging a trench. No, it's more than that. So we have to train them on how to coach, how to mentor, how to train, how to inspire a shared vision, how to model the way so that they don't have to be pushy. Right. So it's more. The leadership is more like jiu jitsu.
Management is like boxing.
Got to tell people what to do. You got to hit them with it. You got to push. And it hurts your knuckles and it hurts their face.
Jiu Jitsu is you're getting their own weight, you're getting where they want to go, their vision, and you're just gently pushing them, nudging them that way. Right. So we got to train our superintendents in this work that we're doing that is, you know, it's a higher mission. It's, it's, you know, you think about. It's a calling to save people's lives.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: And not all the guys are going to buy into it. Right. There's always going to be those guys that are just here to, you know, the paycheck.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: To paycheck.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: Yeah, Right. And that's, you know, unfortunate, fortunate, however you want to look at it. But it's the. The ones that really, you know, care about what they do. That are the ones that we can have to build and get them into that muscle program, right?
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Yeah, because it's, it's the, it's, it's the, it's the what, what do you call them? Steve Jobs called them the early adapters, like the guys who first had the iPhones. Now it's a ubiquitous. The iPhone. Everybody's got an iPhone, right? Mostly everybody.
But takes me back to the parable of the sower that Jesus did, right?
Just to be brutally honest, there's some people who are 25% are just never going to get it. They're hard headed, they're hard hearted, they're hard soil, they're just not going to get it. There's 25% that they're too involved in bad things. They got bad habits, bad behaviors, bad thinking and it sucks them away from any type of growth.
Then you got another 25% that they're really excited, they're really motivated, but then they flounder. It was just all emotion but no backup. But then you have 25%, that's the good soil that, that actually flourishes and grows. So if you want to look, the Pareto, the Jesus Pareto principle is that you get 25% of your top high potential, high performers, put them through a program and then they spread the word to the rest. They are the ones that are going to go out there and work with those guys. Because maybe that hard soil isn't ready yet, but he might be ready in a year.
That guy who's got all these bad habits and addictions, he might not be ready yet, but in two years he might be ready.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: Gotcha.
[00:20:07] Speaker A: So you've just focused on those high potential, high performing guys. You can't save them all, can't save them all.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: But you can build them.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: You can build them, but you got to get your group. So going back to Jesus, Jesus didn't go straight to the crowds.
He went to this 12 that then made 72, then made 120, then made 500 at the very end when, you know, after his resurrection was only 500 people left, he taught thousands and thousands. What happened to all those thousands? They kind of were fickle and went away. So you got to focus on your leaders. So what most people do is they want to do, let's focus on the people. And I said, okay, that's good. No, you got to focus on your leaders because those leaders will then go out and help those people.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: I like the philosophy behind it.
I mean the more information that we can pull to these guys not push to these guys, the better. Right?
You pull to these guys, right? You got to gravitate them to want to learn. Yeah, but no, three weeks in, Wes. Right? Three weeks in and. And I think since day one, you're running, right? So I appreciate you coming on today and kind of giving us a good spill about what? You know, moss built is.
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Right?
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Building the future, building the employees, building, you know, everything. So.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: And can I say something? Everything that's going to be moss built is taken from the field. So you were there and we did. It was a. A SWOT analysis working. What's not working? You were there when we did the job analysis. I'm using the fancy words right now. You're there when. Oh, yo, you weren't there, but I asked Abram bring me all your assets. And so what. What I'm doing is I'm taking everything what Abram and I am doing. We're taking everything that you guys are telling us, and we're building it for. For the field. We're not getting any of these canned, cheesy LinkedIn learning trainings or buying it from anybody, anybody else. We're building it for our people, for our field. And that's the best way to go,
[00:22:11] Speaker B: Sam.
